Impressions and some "benchmarks"

After putting the system together my first impulse was to open task manager and see what was going on behind the scenes, and I was stunned.

I think I've seen my system exceed 50% utilization twice. Not for lack of trying mind you. I loaded up Warcraft III, Flight Sim X, FEAR and found that they were all CPU bound to one CPU, I came to realize that the other cores and chips just don't help at all, at least not right now. I mean, I already knew this, single threaded games won't use more processors - but seeing everything in action really drove the point home.

If you are buying a system for gaming, keep this one point in mind - your games will only run as fast as your fastest core. Half Life is slated to get some multi-threading goodness sometime this year, but coding (i know) multi-threaded applications is difficult and frequently slows the development process. There are a host of issues that need to be dealt with when developing with threads. It also increases bug hunting time. So while it would be "nice", many houses that have single threaded developers probably aren't going to be adding a ton of "risk" to their project plans any time soon just so that we can use all of these crazy cores. The good news is that the PS3 is inherently mutli-threaded and will allow game developers a chance to get their feet wet with threads and concurrent process streams.

The impression here is that 4 cores is too many for 99.99999999999999% of the people out there. The bandwidth available on this system is staggering. I found that when I was installing software I would start two, sometimes three "long running" installs. Or I might run the updater and do an install browse the web etc. etc. There would be basically no slowdown. Nothing seems to take very long, and things like searching my Outlook inbox doesn't put a dent in system performance. All the while I'm free to go from site to site, recompile code, and run queries. If you want a gaming rig I think that two cores might be a better number, it will give the OS and other tasks an area to work while the other core is maxed out. Also, the Intel chips are highly overclockable.

What was a little surprising is that I'm using way more ram, because I can run more programs. In hindsight it makes sense, though when I put this system together I looked at my previous RAM usage and settled on 2 GB, thinking 4 GB might be excessive. I was wrong. Running Visual Studio 2005 really eats a lot of ram, add in SQL Server Management Studio, a few browsers, Outlook, EVE or WCIII and iTunes and you have 1.5 GB easy. I'm also using x64 for my development tools which increases RAM usage as well. The bottom line is that if you have a lot of applications open, go for the 4GB you'll probably need it when Vista is out.

Disk IO is phenomenal. I'm never waiting on the disk. Well I am, but not nearly as much as other machines. This has less to do with the chips and more to do with the drives. If you are building a high end machine like this, get the faster disks. You'll find that they are still fast three years later. It's really the only "investment" that won't get thrown away.

I don't know what's going on in my machine. At the moment, I have no way to monitor temps across the system. I've tried a number of different packages and I've found that they either hang the system or report wierd numbers. This is actively preventing me from tweaking it anymore than I already have. Though at the moment I'm running it in "stock" mode.

From a graphics perspective it eats up the highest settings. In some cases such as EVE, I've found that it actually renders a little better at higher settings. Everything just looks great though. I'm pretty sure that has more to do with the 8800.

Lack of cooling options. Most coolers are not designed to deal with multiple cpus. While I'm sure it would help, I'm going to hold off until a decent 8800 cooler is available. I've also been thinking about desinging a cooling rig for this type of setup that is quiter than a fan based solution.


Installation benchmarks

Windows XP64 - 26 Minutes
Patch to current - 16 Minutes (DSL 6.0 Mb)
Full Office Install (From ISO) - 1 Minute 30 Seconds
Full Visual Studio 2005 Team Architect Install (DVD ISO ~ 3.5GB of data) - 12 Minutes 24 Seconds
SQL Server Tools - 2 Minutes 30 Seconds

Those are the extent of the heafty installs. Those of you who have done the VS.NET install can appreciate how fast that really is.

Drive benchmarks (using h2benchw)

I was interested to see if there was any gain or loss in performance by using the MediaShield controller. I was also interested to see the difference between a single disk and the RAID 0. I found that there was no signficant different between the RAID and non-RAID connected drive. The RAID adds a pretty heafty read boost, though I was expecting a little more.

Write tests were not conducted primarily because it took too much time.

Single Raptor no RAID
Sustained transfer rate (block size: 128 sectors):
Reading: average 71966.5, min 27578.4, max 85309.5 [KByte/s]
Random access read: average 8.13, min 2.52, max 20.64 [ms]
Random access read (<504 index =" 28.9">
Single Raptor RAID connected (also system disk)
Sustained transfer rate (block size: 128 sectors):
Reading: average 71351.8, min 16714.1, max 85308.2 [KByte/s]
Random access read: average 8.10, min 2.24, max 19.86 [ms]
Random access read (<504 index =" 28.8">

RAID 0 Striping (system disk)
Sustained transfer rate (block size: 128 sectors):
Reading: average 99133.7, min 55080.4, max 111992.1 [KByte/s]
Random access read: average 8.14, min 0.05, max 14.84 [ms]
Random access read (<504 index =" 31.7">

Games
I'm going to expand on this a little more but here is some preliminary stuff:

Warcraft III
Highest settings, 1600x1200, don't have a framerate, but it's fast, very fast.
30% CPU Use

EVE Online
Resolution: 1920x1200
100 FPS in station, 27-32 FPS Outside (You've never seen EVE like this)
Settings:
Antialias: 16xQ
AA Transparency: Supersample
Anisotropic: 16x
Vertical Sync: On
25% CPU

EVE seems like it might use more than one thread. I'll post some new EVE pics soon, they are unbelievable.

A Partial Guide to 4x4 and Windows XP64

I have tried a number of configurations for the install of Windows and I thought I would share what works and what does not on XP64.

Things to know before starting

*Do not install nTune*
Under windows XP64 nTune does not work with this motherboard and will cause a full system halt (no BSOD, mouse will stop functioning system will go unresponsive).

Format new drives
It takes forever, and seems like a total waste of time - but do it. A WD Raptor 150 will format in 45 minutes. Ideally, format each new drive that you are putting into your computer individually. Simply following this procedure would have saved a solid 6 hours during the install process for me. The default drivers provided by ASUS do not deal well with faulty drives in your RAID array - and the latest nVidia drivers do a much better job at hiding the problem. However there are no SMART utilities installed by default - so you have no insight into drive statuses and problems.

Remove USB card reader devices
So I was on my "last install". I install XP only to find that when I boot into windows that my main drive is labeled "E:" LOL. Turns out the USB card reader that I had connected to the computer was detected as a fixed drive even though there was no card installed during the installation. At the time I also had Plug and Play OS set to "No" in the BIOS which may have caused this issue. Regardless USB devices cause trouble (see my previous post) so remove them before starting your install.

Setup the RAID ahead of time
Using the BIOS options, setup the RAID array. There are some posts kicking around on message boards that suggest that the array should be setup post OS install. I have found that this does not work with this particular piece of hardware. If the OS is installed without the RAID controller enabled, XP will fail to boot when the RAID controller is enabled post install. XP will fail to boot properly *even if the drives are not assigned to the controller*. The relevant settings were: MediaShield Enabled (BIOS, First Screen, IDE Configuration), No drives enabled, Sil BIOS enabled (BIOS, Screen Two, Other Configuration). Also of note is that when no drives are assigned to the RAID F10 is not an option.


Before you begin

If you are using a RAID Array, you will need the RAID drivers to boot and install the OS on the new array. This will require one of two things: A slip stream image created with nLite or a floppy disk, and drive attached to the system that contains the F6 drivers. The ASUS disk has these files under \Drivers\Chipset\64bit\IDE\WinXP\sataraid. Optionally you can download the latest nForce drivers and then extract the EXE file using Winzip and grab the drivers under \IDE\WinXP\sataraid.

If you are not using the RAID, turn off the RAID options in the BIOS and you will be able to install without any problem.

My Process

Drives
The drives were plugged into SATA ports 1 and 3. I have enabled RAID for ports 1 - 6. Under the F10 menu the RAID method set is to striping, using the the two drives on ports 1 and 3.

Overclocking
No overclocking was used during install.

Boot Sequence
CD-ROM, Hard Drive, Floppy Disk

Drivers

Motherboard
The asus provided drivers were not used. The latest nForce drivers for the motherboard were used, Version 9.53 released December 21 06. WHQL Certified.

Audio
The ASUS provided drivers were used.

Graphics
The latest 8800 drivers were used, ForceWare Release 95Version: 97.44 Release Date: December 8, 2006.

Networking
My local LAN is domain based. As part of the initial install domain membership was added.


The Install

Time required

The install from F6 to cd-key request will take about 15 minutes. From the cd-key request the login prompt will take roughly an additional 11 minutes. This will total somewhere around 26 minutes for the complete install. Pretty fast!

The sequence

Install Method: The non-slip stream, F6 method was used to install Windows on the machine.

F6 was pressed at the initial load screen and at the the prompt "S" was used to install the two nVidia RAID (Class and nForce) Drivers.

The installer asked which drive to install the OS. Only one, the RAID array, was listed. The drive was selected and "Format partition (Quick)" was used (The drives had been previously formatted to verify their integrity).

After copying and installing the files the system rebooted.

The install prompted for a number of pieces of information the requested information was provided. Upon completion of the forms a few more operations complete and the system rebooted.

System boot after the BIOS finishes takes about 14 seconds at this point.

After the system boots and the main user account is logged on the nVidia nForce drivers were installed. The Ethernet drivers were not installed due to issues with my on board devices. However, I would recommend just installing only the Ethernet package and not the second optional install (I forgot its name).

The system was rebooted.

Hard Drive Benchmarks were run on the RAID array. See my benchmarks post.

The 8800 Drivers were installed.

The system was rebooted.

Windows update was run, 51 updates (174.8 MB) were downloaded and installed in 16 minutes over a 6.0 Mb DSL connection.

The audio drivers were installed.

Normal operation of the computer commenced.

Rebuild

The second hard drive (WD Raptor 150) for the RAID 0 array arrived yesterday!

I am in the process of benchmarking the drives to see what, if any, performance overhead is associated with the NVidia MediaShield RAID Chipset.

Right now I have the system drive connected to the RAID controller and the new drive formatted and empty on the standard Sil controller.

I am going to run the benchmark on both drives, then I'm going to re-install the OS on the two drives raided together and see what performance boost I get.

I will hopefully be able to fully resolve the ethernet issues this time around and fix my nvidia desktop manager that not longer works due to installing nTune!

I have sadly been unable to locate a OC utility that will give me a complete look at system temperatures. I think this might have somethign to do with the fact that there are two 570 MCP chips on the motherboard. So I'm going to have to wait on getting a full look at the versatility of the FX70

Pictures!

Some people have asked for pics. I've put together a Picasa photo album for you all (opens in new window).


Check them out!

FX-70 - L1N64 System Build

Benchmarks...

I downloaded the free version of 3dmark 2006.

There is only one option for benchmarking with the free version.

After running the benchmark here are my results:

@ 2.6 Ghz: 10,184
@ 2.8 Ghz: 10,777
@ 2.98 Ghz: 10,859

Out of ~ 653,000 systems this rig is ranked 11,539! It's niiiiice!

I have not tried overclocking the video card yet, but will do so when i figure out where the OC settings went! XFX has some driver issues...

PSU Selection

I spent a lot of time fretting over which PSU to get. The main reason was that I didn't want a 1 Kw hair dryer running in my case. I had to figure out how much I power I realistically needed though. It was easy to get a handle on the processor power consumption, however the drives and the motherboard were largely a mystery. There is little published info on the L1N64-SLI WS so I had to just guess. The 8800 GTX was going to use a solid 200-250W from what I could tell. After adding things up I decided that a 750W power supply would be sufficient, my expectation is that at peak load the system would use about 600W of the 750W available.

I did a lot of reading up on what's involved in a high end power supply noise, power fluctuation, and reliability. This review over at Tech Power Up made up my mind. The be quiet! Dark Power 750 seemed to be the ideal candidate for my new machine, and I'm sure it still is however I couldn't find it anywhere for purchase. So I took the general criteria, Large Fan, Modular Cables and went hunting for something else. Price didn't matter so much as would it be quiet, and reliable?

I finally settled on a ThermalTake 750W due to a few positive comments about it's performance. Oddly it is the Crossfire Certified model, but I was purchasing based on output rather than certification and I felt that 750 was the number I needed. The ThermalTake site while visually unappealing, does have some good information on it. The packaging for the ThermalTake was very niiiiice, it came with a number of cables that are nicely appointed. The cables actually impressed me the most. They came sheathed in a slick mesh that refuses to snag on anything in the case, and holds up to a respectable amount of wear and tear.

Keep in mind the 750W is not sufficient to run two 8800 cards. It is also physically unable to as it only has 3 PCI-e connectors.

ThermalTake does offer another SLI power supply rated to 850W that has 4xPCI-e that will probably be sufficient. I'm not convinced that a 1Kw power supply is needed in a stock 4x4 system. I think that 850 would likely be sufficient, but if you are doing overclocking and such the 1Kw in SLI is probably a good idea.

Availability!

For a platform that "launched" on November 30th it's awfully hard to find the components to build a 4x4 system.

I started the search for CPU's and the motherboard on or around December 16th. I found a handful (about 5) companies that actually listed the components. I found that the motherboards were available in limited quantities, but the processors were no where to be found!

To further frustrate my efforts to build one of these systems, the AMD Press Release published here names Newegg as one of the "Launch" suppliers yet, Newegg had no knowledge of these processors or the motherboard. Note: It seems that the Newegg launch was actually December 27th and they are currently available for purchase.

What was irritating was that there were four system manufacturers listed in that press release as well - they all listed at least one 4x4 system on their site. I didn't actually try to order one, but I did call to see if they would sell me just the processors :) The answer was no, of course.

The reason I found this irritating was that there was only one retail launch partner and four system builders. AMD would have us believe that the 4x4 platform is for "enthusiasts". So I have to wonder what self respecting enthusiast is going to have some one else build their PC for them? Yeah... that's what I thought too. The system builders are not your bread and butter AMD!

Take to the trails!

The orders are in. Over the next week I will be (hopefully) receiving the following components:

2 AMD FX-70 Processors
1 ASUS L1NF64-SLI WS Motherboard
2 GB Ballistix Tracer DDR2-8000
1 Toughpower 750W PSU (116)
1 XFX 8800 GTX
1 Antec Power One Case (Black)
2 Western Digital Raptor 150 GB 10K RPM SATA Drives

I had some trouble tracking down the motherboard and processors. UpgradeNation.com was the only place that seemed to carry it. Searches for FX-70 returned nothing but a few places showed up on Froogle under FX70. Hopefully their estimation for availabilty is correct (late this week 12/22).